August 4, 2009
Episode 23: Prep School
Ah yes, we hate to say it but the end of summer break is drawing nigh (here in the Northern latitudes, anyway) and soon the kids will be back in school. With all the homework, projects, sports, and other scholastic activities monopolizing the lives of our youngsters, how are we adults to fill the empty hours? Hmmm. How about some ASL?
In this episode, we go to prep school — Prep Fire Phase school, that is. With the ASL’ers favorite cheat sheet (the trusty ASOP) in hand, we take a detailed view of every event in this first action phase of the game turn. Why do we love Prep Fire so much? Because we finally get to FIRE!
We are happy to break from our studies to talk with Matt Shostak of the Texas ASL club. You know Matt and friends of course if you’ve ever laid eyes on the excellent Banzai!! [sic] publication, a newsletter — and so much more — put together and offered for free by that honored group from the greatest state in the lower forty-eight. Did we mention they offer Banzai!! for FREE? How’s that for a sample of Texas hospitality?
Put on your thinking caps and join us!
Web Links for this show:
- The Banzai newsletter (all 50 issues in one zip file)
theSandmanCymru said,
August 6, 2009 @ 2:05 pm
Phil from Wales here - no idea where I am. It’s cold..very cold… I’m on my way back … I’m currently off the coast of somewhere… can’t roll low….the dice are stuck to my hands! No sheep to warm me……..
What can I say? Great podcast guys
And please - no one point out the obvious!!! It was supposed to be episode 22 - but the LIVE event stole the number!
Newbie Doobe Dooo Part two …. where are youuuuuuuu?
Cheers guys!
The 2 Half-Squads said,
August 7, 2009 @ 12:14 pm
Hi ho, Phil.
Yes, we recorded “Prep School” before “Light ‘em Up”, but the way the editing and timing worked out we ended up switching the publishing order. Sorry for any confusion that may cause during listening. If there’s one thing we want to avoid it’s adding to confusion.
As for Newbie-Do, we’re trying to figure out how to handle it. We were not prepared for how difficult the production ended up being. It’s a delicate balance of detail, pace, thoroughness and accuracy. We want it to be interesting to listen to — and to play — and precise in every aspect. Mistakes are not acceptable at this level. All of which ends up being very, very time consuming in planning, execution and post-production.
We’re working on it though. We’ve not given up on the topic.
Rally well,
Jeff & Dave & Joe
Andy Beaton said,
August 8, 2009 @ 11:58 am
I’ll just chime in here and say that I would also like to hear you guys go through the OBA procedure. And maybe compile a pronunciation guide for all the weapons and scenarios and the game. Without question, you guys run the best podcast solely devoted to ASL I have ever heard.
Andy Beaton said,
August 8, 2009 @ 12:00 pm
Also, you need editable comments for people who type “and the game” when they mean “in the game”.
The 2 Half-Squads said,
August 8, 2009 @ 12:55 pm
Hi Andy.
Thanks for your comments and vote for T2HS as the best ASL ‘cast. It’s lonely at the top.
We already have a title for the OBA episode, (which is more prep than we usually do for a show!) and it’s on the program schedule for September. Other topics on the short-list are . . . no wait. I actually started typing from our idea list, but a) it’s a very LONG short-list and, b) we like to keep listeners in suspense. Moo-ha-ha-ha!
Don’t forget to bore-sight.
Jeff & Dave
Boudreau said,
August 10, 2009 @ 6:08 pm
Regarding Matt’s comments about core module availability, allow me to be a real, flesh and blood example: I just started ASL in late 2006. I was able to get Gung Ho before it went out of print. I was able to get BRT, new, off the shelf in a game store, for the original list price (thanks in part to your early episodes where you frequently discussed the monster CG).
But I can’t play BRT. Because I can’t find the IJA order of battle, and can’t afford ebay.
No IJA, no PTO, more or less. Certainly the lion’s share of PTO is unavailable to me.
So I wait for the reprint, and know that (realistically) it will probably be 2013 before it is available.
Not whining, just saying: no “know a guy who knows a guy” issue here - I am that guy.
Boudreau said,
August 10, 2009 @ 6:56 pm
Okay, I actually thought I’d seen PTO scenarios that didn’t involve the IJA. I don’t know what I was thinking about, but let me just amend that earlier statement to this:
No IJA, no PTO.
Boudreau said,
August 10, 2009 @ 9:51 pm
Okay, I’ll quit commenting on this, I promise.
2013 is too far out, I can’t add.
I bet I can’t buy Code of Ho until 2011, though.
Plenty to play until then. Just not PTO.
David L. said,
August 10, 2009 @ 10:17 pm
No particular offense to Matt, but that was the lamest response, ever. “Well, we don’t have hard data, just anecdotal evidence of people saying they can’t play PTO because they don’t have CoB.”
??!!!???!!???!
At some point, a bunch of us “anecdotes” add up to “hard evidence.” Mr. Shostak, I am one of those “mythical” fellows.
To the Gang:
I ended up talking to Joe the other day on Gamesquad, and I just realized that I never made it “official” over here. After approximately 30 years of pre-ASL, I finally made the jump to ASL. I recently obtained the rules, Beyond Valor, and all of the cheap modules that are being phased out by MMP (like Partisan!).
David L. said,
August 10, 2009 @ 10:19 pm
Dear Boudreau:
Look at it this way. I bet you can’t buy Code of Ho until at least 2011. On the bright side, For King and Country may have been reprinted by then. At least five of the scenarios will require FKaC or WoA.
Cam said,
August 11, 2009 @ 6:49 am
I think Matt’s comments regarding playability of PTO scenarios are coming from the standpoint of the availability of VASL. If you can get your hands on a rulebook with PTO included, it is possible to play any PTO scenario you can get your hands on, and there are several available either free online or by purchasing PTO scenario packs or ASL journals, etc. While this is certainly not access to everything PTO, it does still allow for at least some degree of PTO access.
And as for the OOP modules, they can turn up in the strangest places. I found FKaC on the shelf at my FLGS a few months ago.
Joe Pellam said,
August 11, 2009 @ 6:51 am
Back in 1996 I went to a hobby store in the middle of no where and they had 3 copies of COB sitting on a shelf collecting dust. I so wish I had bought all 3 of them.
I would have sold them for face value to both David L (guest#2) and Boudreau just to convert 2 more soles to PTO.
Boudreau,
I am glad the the show convinced you to get your hands on BRT and I hope you get the chance to play it someday. Jeff and I really had fun trying to play the CGIII but it it just too big for 2 people and would really be fun to play with four people.
Rare Bird said,
August 11, 2009 @ 7:50 am
I suppose in many ways VASL fills a void in the ASL hobby the same way a photo book of butterflies fills the void in one’s collection of Lepidoptera — is not a picture of a rare or extinct species just as good as the real thing? If you find this analogy satisfactory, then you need not bemoan the scarcity ASL modules, and for this I applaud your Buddhist nature of non-attachment. However, if you are like so many of us who have not mastered this basic human nature, desire is an irresistible itch than can only be scratched to satisfaction by possessing the actual artifact.
I can only assume printing copies of ASL modules is markedly easier than trying to recreate an extinct species of insect, (I say “assume” because I don’t know what goes on at MMP, what the conditions are of the art, etc.) especially with all the amateur — and very talented — Frankensteins out there, all eager and willing to contribute to the effort of reanimating Code of Bushido, West of Alamein, et al. So, why doesn’t this happen? Why does MMP allow would-be players turn to other hobbies because of the unavailability of core ASL products? And why do they appear not to care?
This last is what annoys me the most. It’s like having a plane flight cancelled by the airline for no apparent reason…nor will any amount of cajoling, saber rattling or bribery produce a satisfying response from gate attendants. My wife, the therapist, calls this tortuous teasing “the promise of maybe”. I call it infuriating. It’s why I don’t watch “Lost”.
End of rant . . . for today.
David L. said,
August 11, 2009 @ 8:58 pm
Dear Cam:
To be fair to Matt, I don’t think he LITERALLY meant what he said, if only because it was illogical on its face. You may very well be correct on the VASL angle. I think what he may have been trying to say is that we have no way of knowing if the unavailability of CoB hurts overall ASL sales.
At the risk of being pedantic, let’s break it down with me as an actual example. As I have related elsewhere, it took me roughly twenty-four years to cross over from the pre-ASL series. When I was young and playing a lot of original Squad Leader, I couldn’t afford ASL. As the years went by, I just had rotten timing. Whenever I had the money, key products were OOP. When I was broke, product was plentiful. Did this hurt MMP? In my case, not really. I assume I will eventually buy what they make or have made available. Additionally, it’s not like they have trouble selling out a print run of a core ASL module at their current output.
Does it hurt overall sales? I think so. ASL is already a hard sale to new customers, due to complexity and expense. Nothing is more discouraging to me than finding out I am going to have to go through e-Bay to get something OOP. Generally, that means paying even more money for a used product with little protection for the purchaser (me). Knowing that you are going to be held up if you want to play PTO obviously doesn’t help. (Yes, I understand that the market sets the price.) My point is that it has to cost MMP potential sales in the sense that they aren’t able to break the vicious cycle of small print runs. I honestly believe they are losing customers, long-term.
As I have posted before, monitoring e-Bay alone should confirm this. Every time someone spends $200 on Code of Bushido, that is $200 that could have gone to MMP for a reprint and maybe a special issue of Operations on CoB/GH. My theory is that there is X amount of money being spent on ASL in a given year, and when MMP has no products for sale, the TPP and “collectors” market gets that revenue instead. A few months ago, MMP had literally no modules for sale except Partisan!, The Last Hurrah, Pegasus Bridge, and Croix de Guerre. The prices on e-Bay were starting to get plain silly before the reprints of ASLRB #2 and BV #3.
David L. said,
August 11, 2009 @ 9:05 pm
Dear Joe:
Thanks for the kind thought. I would love to be able to play PTO, because all of my relatives that served in WWII were in that theater. In case anyone cares, my family has had three generations serve in the 25th Infantry Division (Tropic Lightning).
My only real beef with AH and now MMP has been letting the rule book remain OOP for such extended periods. That’s just bad for everyone, period.
David L. said,
August 11, 2009 @ 9:18 pm
Dear Rare Bird:
I am no expert, but it seems like MMP went from an “ASL publisher” (albeit the official one) to a “general wargaming company.” If you pay close attention to interviews here and on other podcasts, you will pick up some interesting facts.
First, the Gamers and International Series have the equivalent of paid staff. The “staff” may only be one guy, as in the case of Dean Essig (Gamers) and Adam Starkweather (IGS), but it’s more than the ASL division has, at least to my knowledge.
Second, the Gamers and International Series products are generally complete, ready to publish games when MMP receives them. They tend to be new or newer products without the inherent problems of ASL (like recreating the art for countersheets).
I think the real issue is that MMP has a lot of other irons in the fire these days, and most of them are likely more profitable than ASL. I don’ like it, but there it is.
David L. said,
August 11, 2009 @ 9:20 pm
Dear Dave, Jeff, and Joe:
Almost forgot…another great episode, keep up the good work. I particularly appreciated the link to the Banzai! Newsletters.
Boudreau said,
August 12, 2009 @ 9:52 pm
David L. said “Look at it this way. I bet you can’t buy Code of Ho until at least 2011. On the bright side, For King and Country may have been reprinted by then. At least five of the scenarios will require FKaC or WoA. ”
I have WoA (paid $15 for it, and that is not a joke) and I bought the FKaC Scenarios and Chapter H from MMP (both of which I think are still available directly from MMP). So, even though I’ve only been into ASL for three years, I’ve been very fortunate to find what I have, and I am grateful for that. I have DB on preorder, and with that and the Japanese, I’ll have all the core modules.
Lots of fun stuff to play until then.
And since this episode, I’ve added every issue of Banzai! to my phone: I’ve never been happier to have to wait in line, than I am now!
Keep up the great work, guys! B
Boudreau said,
August 12, 2009 @ 10:02 pm
Oh, and thanks Joe!
David L. said,
August 12, 2009 @ 10:40 pm
Dear Boudreau:
Now I don’t feel bad about sharing a bright idea I had earlier today. I called ALL of the hobby shops in my area, and I asked to talk to the owner(s). I now have a line on some personal ASL collections that the various store owners are interested in selling! Two of them are more or less complete, and one fellow wants to trade for some of my Soviet military collectibles. (I was an exchange student at LGU in 1992, and I traded a lot of memorabilia for cigarettes, jeans, and tupperware.)
To all ASL fans: Call around. My “big find” was the owner of an RC model shop, for goodness sakes!
Matt Shostak said,
August 16, 2009 @ 8:23 am
Hey, wow, folks were listening. To those who didn’t like my comments about CoB being out of print: I don’t like it either. But what I meant was there’s not enough data for me to comment, from a business perspective, whether CoB delays in reprint hurts MMP. If it’s 50 guys waiting, that’s one thing, and if it’s 500 that’s another altogether. It’s a question of scale, but I don’ t know what that number is where it becomes much more economically sound to reprint CoB. I’m not a businessman, I’m just a player, so I’d rather leave that to others to determine, which is what I was trying to get at. Perhaps I wasn’t as clear as I could have been, but the medium was a conversation on the phone rather than a formal paper. I hope y’all find CoB soon and can get to playing PTO sooner rather than later.
Cheers,
Matt
Boudreau said,
August 16, 2009 @ 12:58 pm
That makes more sense, Matt, than what I thought. Sorry that I misunderstood.
Viva Banzai! Viva T2HS!
Hit all the local hobby/RC/comic shops last week, still no IJA. One of these days!
David L. said,
August 18, 2009 @ 7:21 pm
Dear Matt:
I thought that was what you meant, because what you said didn’t really track. No offense intended earlier, I just can’t resist sometimes.
It is VERY difficult to be interviewed off the cuff. That’s why politicians have PR people, handlers, etc.
At any rate, I have been reading the back issues of Banzai!!, and thanks for your hard work over the years. The older issues are a great resource for a new player like myself.
Sincerely, David
Luke Sineath said,
August 24, 2009 @ 8:43 pm
Speaking of flames affecting a game, I was locked in melee with the Japanese in a building, when the flame turned into a Blaze! everyone died. aar: http://ec-are-moderate.blogspot.com/2009/06/shanghai-in-flames-aar.html
Daniel Brown said,
September 3, 2009 @ 8:00 pm
Have you seen the new maps that will be coming with Action Pack 6? New shapes that fit in news ways to the existing maps. They look very nice and will translate into some unique board configurations.
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?7@93.X3SuaCbZdSI.265@.ee6b46b/39377
Look at the images at the bottom of the link above.